I own two Continental Loan Office bills of exchange, drawn a year and four days apart. Same form, same signature, same account in Paris — and two different states.
Yes — and I've been trying to work out which third bill would teach the most.
Two things one would settle.
The first is the rate. Both of mine convert at five livres to the dollar, a year apart — and that was a year in which the paper dollar was falling hard. If a 1780 or 1781 bill still reads five to one, then the interest on these loans was insulated from the collapse in a way almost nothing else was. If the ratio moved, that tells you something too. Either way it's a real answer, and it's sitting on the face of any third bill.
The second is the cut. Both of mine have a hand-cut wavy left edge, and the two waves don't match each other. A third would tell me whether every bill got its own curve — which is what I think — or whether I just happen to have two from different batches.
And honestly, two is thin. Two documents can agree by accident. Three is when you start to be entitled to say "always."
The encouraging part is that these aren't rare. A third is a matter of watching the right catalogues, not of getting into an archive.
You are welcome. What about the clubs? Have you connected with collectors through such organizations? And also perhaps attended any of the shows? Perhaps you can come for the Boston International Antiquarian Book Fair in November.
Funny you asked that question. Recently I did a search and thought I found that person. However, they had passed away several years. I’m finding that this is a really specialized endeavor.
Interesting... so, what about members or people associated with the following?
1. Massachusetts Historical Society – Revolutionary War Debt Certificates (1779–1821)
2. Yale University – American Historical Financial Documents Collection
3. Herbstman Collection – Revolutionary War Loans
4. American Revolution Institute – Society of the Cincinnati Archives
And another idea. I became interested in researching 17th century books and so attended the Boston International Antiquarian Book Fair a few years ago. I met many dealers and saw some of the books. But they also had a few clubs and societies like the Ticknor society. These are clubs for collectors of books and ephemera. Here are some examples:
Prominent Bibliophilic and Book Collecting Societies
• The Grolier Club (New York, NY):
• The Aldus Society (Columbus, OH):
• The Caxton Club (Chicago, IL):
• The Book Club of California (San Francisco, CA):
Thanks John — short answer, yes. Sorry for the delay. I was waiting on an answer. The per-denomination numbering is the thread I'm pulling on now, and every additional bill is another data point against Hopkinson's own transmission letters. One of those (the 9 November 1778 cover letter at the American Philosophical Society) is pending delivery and should, if the pattern holds, name Bill 645 directly. The more bills come to hand, the sharper the series gets — and the better the odds of settling what the numbering actually meant to the Treasury of Loans in the moment, versus what it looks like to us two and a half centuries later. More to come as the archive answers.
Yes — and I've been trying to work out which third bill would teach the most.
Two things one would settle.
The first is the rate. Both of mine convert at five livres to the dollar, a year apart — and that was a year in which the paper dollar was falling hard. If a 1780 or 1781 bill still reads five to one, then the interest on these loans was insulated from the collapse in a way almost nothing else was. If the ratio moved, that tells you something too. Either way it's a real answer, and it's sitting on the face of any third bill.
The second is the cut. Both of mine have a hand-cut wavy left edge, and the two waves don't match each other. A third would tell me whether every bill got its own curve — which is what I think — or whether I just happen to have two from different batches.
And honestly, two is thin. Two documents can agree by accident. Three is when you start to be entitled to say "always."
The encouraging part is that these aren't rare. A third is a matter of watching the right catalogues, not of getting into an archive.
If you get more of these bills and compare them, do you think you'll learn even more?
I’ll heck it out . Thanks
Thank you for the sources. Herbstman is a new one for me. The other three are spot on too. I will let you know what turns up. Thanks again.
Thank you for the sources. Herbstman is a new one for me. The other three are spot on too. I let you know what turns up. Thanks again.
You are welcome. What about the clubs? Have you connected with collectors through such organizations? And also perhaps attended any of the shows? Perhaps you can come for the Boston International Antiquarian Book Fair in November.
Funny you asked that question. Recently I did a search and thought I found that person. However, they had passed away several years. I’m finding that this is a really specialized endeavor.
Interesting... so, what about members or people associated with the following?
1. Massachusetts Historical Society – Revolutionary War Debt Certificates (1779–1821)
2. Yale University – American Historical Financial Documents Collection
3. Herbstman Collection – Revolutionary War Loans
4. American Revolution Institute – Society of the Cincinnati Archives
And another idea. I became interested in researching 17th century books and so attended the Boston International Antiquarian Book Fair a few years ago. I met many dealers and saw some of the books. But they also had a few clubs and societies like the Ticknor society. These are clubs for collectors of books and ephemera. Here are some examples:
Prominent Bibliophilic and Book Collecting Societies
• The Grolier Club (New York, NY):
• The Aldus Society (Columbus, OH):
• The Caxton Club (Chicago, IL):
• The Book Club of California (San Francisco, CA):
• The Book Club of Washington (Seattle, WA):
• The Baltimore Bibliophiles (Baltimore, MD):
• The Rowfant Club (Cleveland, OH):
Here's the url for the Ticknor Society. https://www.ticknor.org/
Thanks John — short answer, yes. Sorry for the delay. I was waiting on an answer. The per-denomination numbering is the thread I'm pulling on now, and every additional bill is another data point against Hopkinson's own transmission letters. One of those (the 9 November 1778 cover letter at the American Philosophical Society) is pending delivery and should, if the pattern holds, name Bill 645 directly. The more bills come to hand, the sharper the series gets — and the better the odds of settling what the numbering actually meant to the Treasury of Loans in the moment, versus what it looks like to us two and a half centuries later. More to come as the archive answers.
That's great. Have you met or communicated with other owners of bills, and are they working with on the research?